Good News in Jakarta – But JG Awry On Public Opinion?
A welcome news item in the Jakarta Globe tells us that at last some of the undesirables on death row might be given their just deserts. After that recent trial in Tangerang – a gang of louts gang-raped and murdered a young student – and other cases, http://rossrightangle.wordpress.com/2012/04/04/pembunuhan-dan-perkosaan-livia-a-student-strangled-by-racists-her-corpse-raped-hukum-mati-pasti/ it would be a disgrace were the culprits not put to death.
However, our esteemed President SBY apparently isn’t keen. Okay, it’s a matter of personal view, but nothing impressed Western public opinion like the execution of the Bali Pigs a few years ago. Many a glass was raised in appreciation of Indonesia’s action that day!
—————————-
==========
Perhaps SBY has been listening to the arrogant drivel preached by interfering EUSSR diplomats, notably British sticky-beaks, who beaver about town telling Indonesians that terror bombers, murders, child-rapists, etc. must under no circumstances risk paying the proper price for their evil deeds.
Pay such clowns no heed, Pak President. They do not speak for the peoples of the countries they misrepresent.
Only effete cosmopolitan elitists oppose the death penalty in principle.
——————————————-
—————-
And the same goes for Indonesia. Talking to ordinary folk on the buses daily, when the subject of crime comes up – as it often does – very few disagree with the wisdom of eliminating murderous criminals.
So where does the JG get this next nonsense from?
The Attorney General’s Office plans to execute 10 convicted felons in 2013 in Indonesia’s first wave of executions in four years.
Indonesian courts sentenced 113 people to death in 2012, but hasn’t carried out an execution since 2008.
—-
SBY’
—————
In recent years, THE PUBLIC, as well as prominent politicians like President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, have expressed an aversion to the death penalty. (RRA emphasis)
http://www.thejakartaglobe.com/home/indonesia-announces-plans-for-first-executions-in-4-years/563657
The public? I guess most of the pinko scribblers employed by the JG ( and I am not referring to the expats, who are mostly hopeless left-libs) will be as unrepresentative of their normal fellow-countrymen as are the ‘intellectual’ in-crowd back home, but where does this characterisation of “the public’s” views come from?
Maybe all those people on the buses are just agreeing with me out of politeness, but I somehow doubt it.
The fair way – admittedly never tried back home – is to put it to a referendum. That’s democracy in action, and Indonesia could truly be hailed as a beacon of democratic practice if it were implemented here.
And think of all the celebrations we’d enjoy with each terrorist execution!
Yonks, 
Yonks, and 2 others are discussing. 
Derek 10:35 am on December 27, 2012 Permalink |
Yes it is so.
Not too many Indonesian want this penalty to be stopped.
If the terrorist take life, pay with life, same like in case you post before, poor girl going to her university, then killed. Of course death penalty is the best decision.
Yonks 8:39 am on December 28, 2012 Permalink |
Yes, in very simplistic terms it is easy to shout for for the death penalty and the Bali trio made a fine example for your case. Certainly satisfies the base need for revenge.
However, are you really telling me that the Indonesian Legal system can be trusted to make rational, unbiased judgements based on evidence (in which case, you are probably the only one in Indonesia)? Further, you really believe the police are even semi-professional in their investigation of crimes?
Another perspective on your post would be RRA supports the Death Penalty for poor people only. As you have pointed out previously, justice is a the preserve of the rich and the connected in Indonesian. You are advocating state sanctioned killings in a nation renown as “having the best justice system money can buy”
In regard to the death penalty in general, I have always wondered why juries and judges are not subject to manslaughter charges when they get the wrong guy which happens more than we care to think about.
ross1948 9:36 am on December 30, 2012 Permalink
Hello, Yonks.
Sorry to be late in responding, but the Fastive Season takes its merry toll.
Your intro appears to admit that the Bali Swine merited their fate. A pity you think it’s simplistic – the obvious way forward is not invariably wrong, surely.
And then you use the word ‘base’ meaning ‘vile,’ when you ought to use ‘basic,’ meaning ‘fundamental,’ or was that just meant to be rude?
You are undoubtedly vorrect in saying local justice is faulty, as my constant refrains on the cikeusik verdicts/sentences acknowledge, but you are unfair to say I believe in a harsher deal for the poor than the rich – I think I’ve said, for instance, that the floggings in Aceh should be diverted from harmless poor folk to the corrupt rich.
My basic point was that the death penalty was and is entirely right and proper for those I mentioned.
To abolish it, esp. as a sop to neo-colonialist intrusions by dimwit Brit diplomats, is wrong.
It should be kept, and used for such people as mentioned ( gang-rape killers and terrorists, not dimwit diplomats!)
Yonks 5:41 pm on December 30, 2012 Permalink
Hello Ross, I certainly meant base not basic. Revenge is very much a base emotion.
You may not believe in a harsher deal for the poor than the rich but that is absolutely what you are advocating. That is the problem with simplistic, populist but poorly thought out approaches based on emotion not fact.
You say it yourself, the rich or connected are untouchable in Aceh (and generally elsewhere) by what logic then do you assume the death penalty would apply to anyone but the poor. Seriously can you even point out where anyone with more than a couple of dollars or connections has ever even been sentence to death in Indonesia?
If you want to look at the death penalty more widely, how is working out in the US so far? One would think our Amercian friends would be better off maturing past the disney dream that every suburban homeowneris Davy Crocket and the need for every tom, dick n Harry to have access to automatic weapons than worrying about the death penalty.
ross1948 11:21 pm on December 30, 2012 Permalink
Aaah, Yonks, you keep usng elitist buzz-words like ‘simplistic’ and now ‘populist.’ They give your elitism away.
‘Populist’ just means appealing to the people, representing their wishes and not the know-all ideology of modern liberalism. You’d make a perfect EUSSR Commissar,as I suspect you also oppose referenda, in case in our glorious ‘democracies’ the people’s will might triumph over the ‘we-know-best’ establishment.
Sure, it would be good to have lots of rich pigs put to death as well as poor, here and abroad, but, at the moment, nobody’s getting capital punishment in Indonesia.
That’s not because of any class prejudice but, as far as we can tell, because SBY wants to ‘go with the flow’ of ‘world opinion.’
That’s no basis to operate the law, even if ‘world opinion’ in any corner of the UN had held referenda on the issue. California just recenty rejected it, and most Americans, like most everybody, share that view.
It’s the PRINCIPLE of keeping the death penalty on the statute book that’s important – it is the only fair and just punishment for crimes like those I’ve mentioned.
——
There was nothing ‘base’ about executing those three swine who murdered the kids in Bali. Nor would it be ‘base’ to kill the killers of poor Livia, the gang-rape girl murdered in a West Jakarta microlet. Nor would it be ‘base’ to string up those foul creatures in India whose victim just passed away.
Truth to tell, I’d say anyone who wanted to keep such monsters alive is pretty base. Do you REALLY disagree with me on those cases?
================
As for your attempt to escalate these comments into a brand-new debate on gun laws in America, I may post on that next year, then you and your other two Apocalyptic Horsemen can rail away to your hearts’ content.
Meanwhile, enjoy Hogmanay!
Yonks 6:09 pm on December 31, 2012 Permalink
In fact, I live a long way from Jakarta Ross and have no fear about my contact with the ordinary people. I assume you mean the ones which you wish to apply the death penalty too. Well done, you dodged and avoided every question that may have added a modicum of depth to your position.
Sorry, as I posted in my first comment the Bali trio make a nice little funnel to megaphone your position but you address none of the more problematic issues of implementation.
Referendum …What would the question be… “Do you support the death penalty only for the poor and unconnected” as you have yet to indicate how that could be avoided in reality. I ask you again of the 113 currently sentenced for state termination, can you name one who has means or connections? If not, how can you seriously suggest ramping up executions is serving justice?
Yonks 11:52 am on December 31, 2012 Permalink |
Ross, We have had this discussion before. I have no issues debating with you but please do not deliberately misrepresent me or it becomes pointless. You and I both know that I was using “base” in terms of the human emotion of revenge. It is disingenuous at best to suggest otherwise. You also cheapen your argument by suggesting than anyone who disagrees with you has any sympathy for people like the Bali Bombers.
You have continually advocated for the Death Penalty to be exercised in Indonesia yet you have studiously avoided how to even approach the issue of fair administration of state sanctioned death. Scurrying under the term “Principle” once presented with the obvious inability of the state to apply justice in a fair and unbiased manner, you demonstrate for all to see just how simplistic, dangerous and naive such demands are.
Your own post aptly demonstrates the simplistic nature of your point.
“The Attorney General’s Office plans to execute 10 convicted felons in 2013 in Indonesia’s first wave of executions in four years.
Indonesian courts sentenced 113 people to death in 2012, but hasn’t carried out an execution since 2008.”
Can you point out just one of those 113 people who is connected, rich or could anyway be considered a “King-Pin”? If not (and I suggest you can’t) then my basic point stands, despite your best intentions you are advocating the Death Penalty for the poor. They may well be 113 evil souls but if you cannot see that their something inherently wrong with only the poor being subject to the death penalty then I cannot make it any simpler for you.
Yes, I disagree in Principle with the Death Penalty however if you could demonstrate or even indicate with any degree of honesty that if the Death Penalty was to be common place then we could trust the government use it only in the very worst of cases you might have a point.
Let’s remember this is a nation that awards ten years for raising the wrong flag.
Tell you what, when you can demonstrate the rule of law actually applies to all equally (a favourite rant of yours..yes?). Then perhaps it is time scream for state sanctioned executions until such time then it remains a simplistic, populist and yes base rant.
ross1948 2:03 pm on December 31, 2012 Permalink
Gosh, abit testy today, Yonks. Actually, I did think maybe you said base by mistake, instead of basic, which would have made mre sense.
You can rant along as you please, but when it comes down to it, I’m happy to leave it to the people. Referenda here, and everywhere, on these kind of issue.
Your affront at my ‘misrepresentations’ – actually, logical deductions – about your elitist mentality is very telling.
And pray respond properly, why would you, or anyone, want to refrain from executing the Bali Pigs?
BTW, I recommend you get out more and talk to ordinary people. Avoid Diggie’s hang-outs, like Face Bar, which he tells me is rotten wth pinkos.
Winato 11:41 am on December 27, 2012 Permalink |
This is a good opinion and we thank you. It is bad for Europe to tell us what to do. Holland has done that for many years and we send them home. Now EU and England start again.
Okay to talk it on the bus like you do, interest to hear other opinion, but governments no need to act colonial.