Brits Banned Michael Savage but Let In Top Jakarta Islamist, Author of Odious Ode to 9/11 Mass-Murderer
So that was my lead story for today, not a gripping yarn, perhaps, but arguably interesting to my increasing number of overseas readers.
But of course I had to find a snap of Anis Matta to illustrate my post, and while I was Google-searching, something caught my eye.
At first I found it hard to believe, because I’d not heard anyone complaining about it. So I put in the key words, Anis Matta, poem and Osama, and sure enough, from his own PKS party’s website, there it was, confirmed on other Islamist sites. See PKS site for poem –
http://beritapks.com/keagungan-osama-bin-laden-dalam-puisi-anis-matta/ and also the article below from
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And here’s what they show!
As some of you may know, ANIS MATTA WROTE NOT JUST ONE BUT TWO POEMS, ODES TO THE LATE AND UNLAMENTED AL QAEDA TERRORIST…AFTER THAt SWINE HAD MURDERED SOME 3000 INNOCENTS IN NEW YORK.
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JAKARTA – A thousand of ways are done by America to create a negative stigma on the fighters who are defending this religion of Allah, it will also be a thousand times that Allah will unmask the lies of His enemies. Until the bad stigma that they hurled manifests into love for those personages in the selves of the Muslims.
You never told me
If you wanted to blow the WTC and Pentagon
Bush also had no evidence until now
So I chose to believe
In the love that emanates
Beneath the shade of your eyes
In the spirit of defence that is stored
Behind the denseness of your beard.
You are the one who taught
The dumb nations to be able to speak
So they yelled.
In the field of souls of those who were timid
So they fought.
In the well of hearts of those who are oppressed
So they struggled.
Awakening the hearts of the people
So they rebelled.
You are the one who locked the mouth of the superpower nations,
So they fell silent
And they can only run amok.
From the foreheads of the arrogant nations
So they are silenced.
From the souls of the tyrannical nations
So they are never able to sleep soundly.
From the heaven of the hearts of those prosperous nations
So they are no longer enjoying life.
Let us sing the victory song
Together with the pure hearts of the human children
Who have found life.
Let us hum the song of eternity
Together with the pure hearts of the human children
Who long for the garden of paradise.
This letter has been received
I’m doing well here
I am still drinking tea in the morning
And enjoying the sunset in the evening
I also still control the business
And control the al-Qaeda network
From behind the caves in Afghanistan.
Because the schedule of my death
Is not written in the Pentagon nor the White House.
I watched your actions on Al-Jazeerah TV
I’m glad you guys started to dare to speak
I love it that you guys could already make Bush mad
I’m glad you guys could already say no
I’m happy you guys started to learn to be a lion
I’m touched that you guys are rather poorly but you do want to donate…
I’m amazed that you guys are rather young
But you do want to go to Afghanistan for Jihad
I really think you guys are extraordinary children.
But do not tell anyone.
Why the Taliban people love me
They said because apparently I’m funny
The Afghan kids are also pleased with me
They said because I have brought them toys
The American planes for them
The scavengers in Afghanistan also like me
They said because their old wheels
Could be the best-selling scrap metals.
Whereas, we are just playing in the yards of paradise.My Brother,
If later Allah chooses me to be a martyr
My messenger will come to you
Bringing a small pot
It’s my blood,
Water the garden of jihad in Ambon, Ternate and Poso
But if I could bury the American arrogance here
I will come to Indonesia
You know what I would do
I just want to invest in your country.
This picture was attached to it, apparently taken in London, with the PKS logo clearly visible on the wall.
It describes how the Mayor of London Borough of Tower Hamlets, Lutfur Rahman, addressed the participants, in a seminar ‘themed Indonesia’s Future Political Landscape: Challenges Facing Political Party,’ held by the Center for Information and Services (PIP) Prosperous Justice Party UK. http://pk-sejahtera.org.uk/pks-uk/seminar-internasional-politik/
Now that struck me as interesting in itself, that an Indonesian extreme Islamist party would have a UK section. So I read on, and checked other sites too. Here’s a clip from http://www.iccuk.org/page.php?section=news&page=democracy
That’s the site of the Islamic Cultural Centre and London Central Mosque.
While delivering his Opening Remarks, the Ambassador of the Republic of Indonesia to the United Kingdom and Ireland, Mr. Yuri Thamrin, said, “Today, Indonesia is a living proof that democracy can develop robustly in a Muslim majority country. Indonesia is a country where Islam, democracy and modernity could go hand in hand harmoniously.”
Fine words, Your Excellency, but were they music to the ears of Matta, who glorified Osama Bin Laden after 9/11?
More from that site – ‘The keynote speech was delivered by Mr. Jazuli Juwaini, M.P. the Head of the Central Executive Board of PKS – The Prosperous Justice Party of Indonesia. In his keynote speech, Mr. Juwaini first mentioned, “Islam is the religion of peace and the mercy for the universe and it is not merely about rituals, but a comprehensive way of life: ‘Aqidah (creed), ‘Ibadah (worship), ‘akhlaq (moral), education, social and culture, law and justice, economy, politics etc. Such a comprehensive view of Islam has been widely regarded as political Islam. This topic has been a very interesting discourse since the end of the cold war, and especially when the war on terror started and led by the US in 2001 as the response to terrorist attack on the twin towers in Manhattan, New York on September the 11th 2001.”
Yes, Mr. Jazuli, that little incident, whose perpetrator got a nice laudatory ode written to him by your colleague Anis Matta.
… Mr. Matta has specialised in Shari’ah from the Saudi University. He has Bachelor degree in Shari’ah from the Indonesian branch of the Imam Muhammad Ibn Saud Islamic University of Riyadh, Saudi Arabia in 1992. He also completed Defence National Course. He was teaching Islamic Economics in the University of Indonesia before joining politics. He joined political party, say the Prosperous Justice Party in 1998.
Back to http://pk-sejahtera.org.uk/pks-uk/seminar-internasional-politik/
‘ The first UK Muslim mayor’s opinion was authorized by the Vice Chairman of the House of Representatives Anis Matta.’ who was present at the seminar, as were ‘speakers from members of the House of Lords of the Labour Party and the Conservative Party…. M. Amin of the state Conservative Party stated that one indicator that democracy is working well is when the losing party at the election is ready and able to accept defeat. Instead of accusing the winning party of committing fraud….PKS President Lutfi Hasan Ishaaq added that the current Indonesia is still filled with old leaders and public figures. “Indonesia needs new figures and leaders….”
So what were these people from Labour and Tory Parties doing hob-nobbing with a man who overtly lauded the satanic terrorist who ordered, and revelled in, the 9/11 outrage?
Anis was really allowed into the UK despite his shameful verses? This event took place this year, in January, while the American Michael Savage remained banned from British territory for for allegedly fostering extremism or hatred. Savage says a lot of things, and I don’t know if Iagree with everything he says.
But he has never written a love-poem to a monstrous mass-murderer.
Oh, yeah, the pinkos out there will say, but this Indonesian may hold disgusting and grossly offensive opinions, but he’s a prominent politician in a ‘friendly’ country.
So how come Geert Wilders was subject to an exclusion order, despite his status as a prominent politician in a friendly country, until he was forced to use every possible legal and diplomatic channel to overturn the ban. Wilders wrote a book criticising a religion.
A lot less offensive than writing an odious ode to a mass-murderer. Why was Anis Matta allowed into Britain?
Questions that need answers, as does that earlier question, about the PKS organising in the UK.
This international seminar in London that was opened by the Indonesia’s Ambassador for the UK Yuri Thamrin Oktavian was within a series of events in the PIP PKS UK’s Board of Leaders’ Conference. .
http://pk-sejahtera.org.uk/pks-uk/seminar-internasional-politik/
andriono cinangka, 
Wanti, and 10 others are discussing. 
rossrightangle 
Jazpen 08:25 on July 7, 2011 Permalink |
And this is a serious politician, with colleagues in the cabinet? I confess, I’d never heard of him, or his poem.
Come on, SBY. get these PKSers out of any position they can taint. Poisonous people.
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Anne Bennett (@AnneKavkaz) 20:48 on February 26, 2012 Permalink |
Wow. I have not been following Indonesia at all. Looks like a mistake. Some real fanatics there.
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andriono cinangka 14:18 on February 13, 2014 Permalink |
How come you said that the actoer of 9/11 was Osama?you have no evident. -Its very weird a strong building like WTC ruined by thaht kind of accident.we have a picture of something explode at lower building whenthe plan hit the building. And many witnesses said that they heard some explosion in underground building. How come the strongest nation like US could be attacked in their own country
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andriono cinangka 16:17 on February 13, 2014 Permalink |
There waa not any single jewish killed in WTC tragedy.how come?many jewish worked at WTC. Was that incoincident?No…
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andriono cinangka 19:04 on February 13, 2014 Permalink |
You put a bad impression for Indonesian moslem.meanwhile we never start the debate.speaking about WTC, there is not any evident show that Obama is guilty.
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ross1948 21:54 on February 13, 2014 Permalink |
Ga benar, Pak Andriono!
Saya sering bilang pemirsa2 RRA bahwa ada BANYAK Orang2 Islam baik sekali disini, sperti yang protes kekerasan FPI, dan juga yang lawan razia FPI di Sukorejo, dll.
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andriono cinangka 20:40 on February 13, 2014 Permalink |
Moslem brotherhood won the general election in egypt coz all egyptians love them.Hamas won in general election coz all palestinians love them.and soon PKS will win the general election coz most of Indonesians love PKS.
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ross1948 21:50 on February 13, 2014 Permalink |
I know you probably regard gambling as haram, but if you’d like to have a bet on PKS winning, I am ever-ready.
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andriono cinangka 21:05 on February 13, 2014 Permalink |
32 moslem died in WTC tragedy and strangely,over 4000 jewish who worked in WTC were absent on that day. So Osama told them not to work on the tragedy day?
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ross1948 21:49 on February 13, 2014 Permalink |
Selamat datang, Pak.
I hope you continue to enjoy RRA posts – we’ll keep doing our best to brighten your every day.
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andriono cinangka 09:10 on February 14, 2014 Permalink |
Thank you….Ross,PKS never order its cadre to hurt other people. When there was a huge flood in Jakarta,there were only our cadre who helped the victims. We help people wherever and whenever not because there will be a general election. The mass media polling proves it.We teach our cadre to help and not to hurt.
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andriono cinangka 09:42 on February 14, 2014 Permalink |
If you idolize Hitler,can people judge you as anti semit?eventhough you idolize him for his good speech not for what he did to jewish people? We can not judge someone for anything in his mind, wecan only judge/punish someone for what he did.
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ross1948 10:05 on February 14, 2014 Permalink |
Pagi, Pak!
I don’t think Hitler is a very good example for you to choose to make your point. He was a painter, and a writer, but his achievements in those areas were unimpressive, and his regime was frightful.
But I see what you mean. Naomi Campbell for instance, is a very gifted model, and I enjoy watching her, but her thinking is near-idiot; she admires the cruel communist totalitarian, Castro. So it’s important if you see some good aspects in a famous person that you make clear you do not endorse that person’s bad qualities.
.
Idolatry, delighting in/revering images, for whatever reason, can be very unhealthy.
Even here in Jakarta, I often see ignorant people walking around in t-shirts bearing the portrait of a marxist mass-murderer, Che Guevara.
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andriono cinangka 13:04 on February 14, 2014 Permalink |
Smart moslem will not do such ignorant thing coz Islam forbides for idolizing non moslem character.those people don’t understand so we should teach and explain who che guevara is.
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ross1948 13:06 on February 14, 2014 Permalink |
Agreed! He was kejam buaanget!
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andriono cinangka 22:16 on February 14, 2014 Permalink |
I have been following your post ross…I don’t think you brighten the readers.your writing always gives a bad impression about moslem in Indonesia. In another page you said that Mr Tifatul is a very dangerous man.you know nothing about him. You wrote it in english so people abroad understand your explanation. You said badly too about mr Hidayat Nur Wahid. You always give your sharp argument about moslem in Indonesia.
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ross1948 22:36 on February 14, 2014 Permalink |
Hello again, Pak.
If you mean the behaviour of those two PKS gents regarding the cookie scandal, yes, of course I criticise them.
As for Muslims in general, when Muslims do good things, I praise them, here or overseas.
Sadly, the FPI is a violent thug gang, and the MUI holds very intolerant views, so yes, for Muslims like those, I have harsh words.
And I do write in English. It’s how I was brought up!
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andriono cinangka 10:41 on February 15, 2014 Permalink |
Morning Ross…let’s we meet to talk about Islam thoroughly.I haven’t read your praise for any moslem in Indonesia.when christmas came last year, moslem gave space in Istiqlal Mosque for Christians. In Idul Adha,Moslem in Indonesia distributed meat to whoever without asking what religion someone belong to. Why do you always mock at PKS characters?are you afraid of moslem?what is your opinion about the slaughtery done by christian in ambon?Ross…now Moslem and Catholic/Christian live in peace in Indonesia. I join here to explain to a person like you who always spread hatred.Ross…the crusade war happened hundred years. Luckily,what you wrote is not read by any moslem who are rather “emotional”than “rational”. Let’s not use the term”fanatic”,coz you didn’t give requirements some people would be called “fanatic” if……..and about Ahmadiya Ross, Indonesia only admits 5 religions.any kind out of that five will not be protected and should join with the five.
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Anita 15:56 on February 15, 2014 Permalink |
Mr.Andriono, you are not the voice for Muslims, only for the PKS, if even that, because I do not know if you are member in that party.
You always like telling Ross he is against Muslims people, but you cannot read that in his blog. He always make differences between good Muslim and people like FPI who think they are free to hurt and attack people, Muslim people, who do not agree to their thinking.
Gus Dur was a good Muslim man and Ross always say good things about him and about his bravery at Sang Timur and about Lily Wahid and her bravery at Yasmin church in Bogor. This because he is thinking like many Indonesia Muslim. Many people here who are true Muslim and good who believe in the freedom of religion.
When Ross was teaching, he always was good to all students, no difference if they Muslims or Christians or others. So they remember him because that.
Indonesia has freedom to speak and criticise, like Ross when he writes his attitude and he give you free reply because he is fair to you eventhough you are PKS.
Many and most Muslim people, do not vote for PKS or PBB and most vote for secular party like PDI-P and Golkar.
Osama Bin Laden you say was not the terorist on 9/11. You know he was with Taliban who stop girls education. I am a girl who enjoyed education. So yes, I say Osama same like Taliban, evil.
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andriono cinangka 16:07 on February 15, 2014 Permalink |
Hello ross….having different opinion is a blessing from Allah.But insulting is different matter. A moslem is like a bee.you hurt it then it will chase you.but if you don’t disturb it, it won’t hurt you. The crusade war began by the person who spread hatred, Urban II. The person like you. Ross….I suggest you not to continue your activity related to spreading hatred about Indonesian moslem. Mocking at people doesn’t yield an enlightenment. I have no heart feeling with you ross….let’s come to our office and discuss everything that you always write in your blog. I would not join RAA if you didn’t insult moslem .
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ross1948 19:22 on February 15, 2014 Permalink |
Aaah, Pak Andriono. you’re back again.
I admire your determination to defend your cause.
But I do not admire people who ‘chase’ those who do them no harm, except ‘hurt feelings.’ That’s why what you might call Islamophobia exists, because some ignorant people cannot control themselves when they hear something they don’t like.
We have seen it here, at Cikeusik, and in Denmark, and Holland, with infantile criminals threatening violence because people write or make speeches or draw cartoons that ‘hurt somebody’s feelings.’
Such ‘hurt’ people are actually unhurt, nobody harmed them, just challenged their prejudices. They should grow up.
Your comment about ‘disturbing’ people is a good example. I often see and hear things that disturb me, even grieve me, but I don’t take up a wooden club and attack those responsible. I express my opinions here, and nobody is forced to read them.
So you think Ahmadis should become apostates? That unless the state approves your beliefs, you have no right to be protected as you worship God in your own way?
If somebody wants to convert of their own free will, say from Christian to Muslim, I say they are free to do so.
But I have read of savages who say any Muslim who converts to another creed should be killed. Do you agree with that, or with me, that religion is a matter for all to choose without compulsion?
A meeting? Interesting idea. I promise not to bring a wooden club!
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andriono cinangka 07:24 on February 16, 2014 Permalink |
Morrning Ross…you are so funny.your knowledge about Islam is extraordinary ross. You are very intelligent.Ahmadiya is forbidden in Indonesia since MUI declared it.they are not moslem but look like moslem.they mislead many uneducated moslem.they operate in rural not urban since they know that they will face educated moslem.they can not spread their belief to people who already have religion.their target is moslem who are uneducated. It againsts the law.So far,we have warned them many times.but they still do their activity recruiting villagers who think ahmadiya is similar to Muhammadiya or Nahdlatul Ulama.They don’t understand that Ahmadiya is not Islam.their holy book is not Qur’an but Tadzkirah.their prophet is not prophet Muhammad Peace be upon him. How come we let them ? Oh ya ross I m not a kind of a person who asked a group of people to hurt someone else.so you are an experienced journalist ross? You have a very good skill in convincing people through your writing.Jakarta globe is your office?may we come? ……
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ross1948 08:31 on February 16, 2014 Permalink |
Good morning, Pak.
Today is a busy day, and I am going out soon, but just want to clarify, I do NOT work for or with the Jakarta Globe.
If you read my recent post about their bias, you will see why!
Have a happy!
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Andriono cinangka 22:13 on February 16, 2014 Permalink |
Good evening Mrs Anita and Mr Ross….about my representative,I don’t say that I am the representative of Muslim Indonesia and I believe both of you are not the representative of christian/catholic either.About what Gus Dur did for Sang Timur is unforgettable for christian/catholic community. When it happened,I lived near that place so I know it. I also felt the misery of the students who couldn’t study because the way was blocked. On that case,I would stand with Gus Dur. When christmast came last year, many Islamic party greeteed “selamat merayakan hari natal” including PKS for we have a huge tolerance for christian/catholic some moslem guard jakarta churches and the biggest Masjid in Jakarta gave its parking area for the christian/catholic since Katedral parking area was insufficient. PKS is not similar to FPI. About Osama,you really have no idea about the tragedy 9/11.just open in internet about ” fakta aneh tragedi WTC 9/11″ in internet. There is no evidence directs us to Osama. What is your opinion about “ambon tragedy”? In Ambon, moslem baby,children were killed by Christian/Catholic. Which one is cruel? “Ambon tragedy” or “Sang Timur blockade”?
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ross1948 00:03 on February 17, 2014 Permalink |
Good evening, Pak. It’s late and I have an early appointment tomorrow, so I will just say ‘Selamat tidur.’
But you surprise me – you sound like somebody I would like to talk to. We’ll continue the dialogue besok.
I’m sure Anita will respond more promptly than I.
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Andriono cinangka 03:45 on February 17, 2014 Permalink |
Good morning Mr Ross and Mrs Anita…..when you focus on the “emotional” muslim in Cikesik,Denmark etc….let’s see another country like Bosnia. Many bosnians muslim were killed by serbian catholic. The killing was so sistematyc.it was genocide.
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ross1948 08:10 on February 17, 2014 Permalink |
Pagi, Pak. Baru mau pergi. I will be home tonight, tlg sabar dong.
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ross1948 22:51 on February 17, 2014 Permalink |
Well, thank you, Pak. You have got a lot of people commenting and reading RRA.
I am tired tonight, a long hard day.
But I will respond to the mention of Bosnia, and remind you that, if I am not mistaken, a senior Muslim cleric there expressed true gratitude to NATO (led by America) for the actions taken to safeguard his flock from the attacks they were enduring.
And it’s the same NATO trying to safeguard decent Muslims in Afghanistan from the evil Taliban terrorists!
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Wanti 14:29 on February 17, 2014 Permalink |
Yes, PKS is not same like FPI, but I read before that the PKS Minister Tifatul and the PKS party wants shariah law. That means with stoning and whipping and cutting off hands, yes?
Do your PKS truly beleive in that terrible punishments for Indonesian people.
Aceh is so terrible image for Islam.
If Arab like it, so sad.
But we do not want that in our country.
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Andriono cinangka 00:06 on February 18, 2014 Permalink |
Sharia here means sharia economy.
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Andriono cinangka 09:06 on February 18, 2014 Permalink |
Good morning Ross….Miss Wanti…..sharia in economy has been accepted throughout countries in Europe.the foundation of sharia bank is a solution for reducing capitalism which have caused many countries collaps. Stoning,whipping and cutting off hands don’t happen everyday in Saudi Arabia. As you know Miss Wanti,from the news in everymorning in -ndonesia, there are many babies thrown away by his/her biological mother as the baby is unwanted. The sharia law will limit the doers of conducting the similar things and to minimize free sex which is forbidden by all religions on this Earth. Since prophet Moses commanded the 10 commandments, he already forbade the free sex. Miss Wanti, if you have a daughter and someone rapes her….what is the suitable punishment for the rapist? One year in jail?and how about the misery which your daughter will bear during her life? Sharia law protects your daughter and make the Would be rapist think twice of doing so. And About your reply Mr Ross..you are completely right.at that time NATO helped Bosnian Moslem from Radovan Karadzic and Slobodan Milosevic. I don’t deny that. You are extraordinary Ross. Thanks to NATO troop who helped moslem in Bosnia.
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ross1948 22:57 on February 18, 2014 Permalink |
Malam Pak.
I must admit I’m confused, since you first said that shariah here was just an economic issue, but in this reply to Wanti, you appear to be arguing for savage shariah punishments.
Which is the case? Do you ( and/or the PKS) hope for Aceh-style penalties in the rest of Indonesia or not?
Don’t get me wrong. I am no liberal.
I fully support the death penalty for terrorist and various other categories of vicious killings. Most Western people do, and despise their politicians who refuse to accept the democratic will on the issue.
And the pigs (yes, pigs!) who rape children deserve the harshest of punishments.
But in Aceh, and in Saudi (not every day, no, but it’s the principle that matters) people are whipped for silly little offences, which are regarded as quite harmless by most people, including many Muslims. We see those shariah police in Banda Aceh etc arresting girls for wearing clothes some old clerics don’t like. We even had some fool saying that dancing was unholy. And the bike-straddling nonsense?
Surely you cannot be an advocate for that?
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Andriono cinangka 11:33 on February 18, 2014 Permalink |
Good morning ……when Konstantinopel was conquered by Muhammad Al Fatih, he protected the christian civilians from being hurted. When Yerusalem was conquered by The Crusaders, they slaughtered all moslem in that city eventhough children,women and babies until the yerusalem land flooded by moslem blood. But moslem people could retake the city under Shalahudin Al Ayyubi. When Yerusalem was conquered, Shalahudin al ayyubi protect The christian /the crusaders who surrendered,women and children from being hurted and looted. The kindness of moslem king and general to christian/catholic people is already well known in The World history. On the contrary, when the crusaders succeeded in defeating moslem in Spain, the crusaders killed all Moslem and burnt the rest in their own house. The Christian /Catholic celebrated it as ” April Mop” or “April fool day”
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ross1948 22:48 on February 18, 2014 Permalink |
Saladin is generally regarded as a good king, true.
But the issue of the Crusades is worth looking at, because the lands concerned were invaded with no justification by Saladin’s precessors. Previously, they were home to largely Christian populations and some Jewish people.
The same goes for Turkey and much of Europe’s Balkans, and the North African parts of the old Roman Empire. Wars of expansionist agression.
.
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Andriono cinangka 23:33 on February 18, 2014 Permalink |
Great !……Mr Ross you are very intelligent. I admire your sportive attitude by letting me comments in your blog. The legend entitled “dracula”made to camouflage the cruelty of a Christian/catholic noble man named Dracula. He killed moslem cruelly by stabbing a spear from ass to head and showed the victims to many people. Dracula killed 10000 moslems. He enjoyed stabbing a sword,spear into their ass to the head. Sultan Muhammad Al Fatih saved the moslem by killing the dracula and cut off his head.
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ross1948 23:53 on February 18, 2014 Permalink |
Vlad the Impaler, from Transylvania!
But did he have anyone publicly flogged for playing cards for a few perak?
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Cam 03:16 on February 19, 2014 Permalink |
Vlad’s sadism could have been a response to the ottoman’s atrocities toward non-muslims as a way of war, many of which are well documented, including torture and massacres, not to mention enslavement of conquered peoples by the turks. I refer especially to the dersirme. The apologist propaganda exspoused by muslims today, minimising crimes and atrocities comitted by muslims in the pursuance of islamic supremacism is negated by evidence from victims of islamic agressions whose testemonies are backed up by the conduct of today’s jihadis, posted all over the net for all to see.
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Santi 11:07 on February 19, 2014 Permalink |
Dear Mr Ross……Mr Andriono
I am Acehnesse. speaking about anything in Aceh I know better than both of you. Gambling is forbidden in Aceh because it brings misery. Its not a matter of a few perak when the punishment is implemented but any big thing starts from the little thing Mr Ross. when they are accustomed to playing card eventhough for a few perak, when they have more money they will do it for something bigger. Las Vegas is the example for “maksiat city”.Las Vegas provides sex,gambling etc which not make us richer but on the contrary. I am not the member of PKS like Mr Andriono is, but Mr Andriono’s explanation makes me smarter than before. Thank you
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ross1948 13:16 on February 19, 2014 Permalink |
Selamat siang, Santi.
Thank you for your comment.
We now have two commenters named Santi, so in future I will add a ‘2’ to yout name if you join our discussions.
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Andriono cinangka 16:11 on February 19, 2014 Permalink |
The first is wanti Ross the second is santi
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ross1948 19:40 on February 21, 2014 Permalink |
Thanks for the correction, but we do have two Santis, one Wanti and a few other local commenters who drop in form time ti time.
More interestingly though, is your latest statement, that only people who ‘hate islam’ talk about the stoning, whipping and cutting off of hands.
Are you saying these things do not happen, or that they are against your idea of shariah?
The thing is, they DO happen, and they are done in the name of islamic shariah – however, many Muslims reject them. Do you say these dissenting Muslims ‘hate Islam?’
With respect, Andriono, that makes no sense at all.
This is a useful debate, and I will post on the subject again, but I would like to hear your views clearly on this.
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ati 11:23 on February 21, 2014 Permalink |
Good afternoon Mister Andriono.
We talk about this today and see you do not answer the question of girls going to school. Your Osama bin Laden and his Taliban in Afghanistan made it not allowed. They said it is shariah rule. Do you think same like them?.
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derek 11:37 on February 21, 2014 Permalink |
So please be clear for we who are indonesians to understand, pak, you want the same rules here in jakarta like in Aceh.
You want people who change religion to be killed unless they change to your religion?
Do you believe in this, do PKS believe in this?
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Andriono cinangka 17:09 on February 21, 2014 Permalink |
Good afternoon…..sharia islam is any aspects in our life which are managed by Islam including:getting married,pursuing knowledge,the way we eat,the way we socialize with another religions,the boy should be “kitan”, no interest in bank, forbidden food to maintain our health,don’t get drunk, no free sex,protecting minority for being harmed, etc…etc….the propagandist who hate Islam will echo whipping,stoning,cutting off hand as sharia meanwhile that is not the face of sharia.
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Lairedion 18:20 on February 22, 2014 Permalink |
“protecting minority for being harmed”. Perhaps you can tell that to your fellow brethren advocating for sharia while harassing and murdering minorities in Indonesia.
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Andriono cinangka 12:13 on February 23, 2014 Permalink |
And you tell your fellow who slaughtering babies and children in Ambon?
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Anita 16:57 on February 23, 2014 Permalink |
Selamat sore, Mr.Andriono
We are all waiting for you to tell if you like Taliban sharia that stop girls education.
And Ross asked again if you think people who convert out from Islam must deserve to be killed.
please tell us answers.
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Lairedion 22:50 on February 23, 2014 Permalink |
Andriono,
You mentioned yourself protection of minorities being part of sharia, I responded to that with what’s happening in Indonesia since 1998. Ross has, sadly enough, plenty of articles on this subject.
Personally I don’t have any religious or ethnic relations to the people of Maluku but I guess you were assuming I must be Christian which I am not. However, since you have raised the subject I would argue that any person involved in slaughtering babies and children anywhere in the world from any religious or ethnic background deserve the death penalty him/herself.
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Andriono cinangka 08:37 on February 24, 2014 Permalink |
Good morning …….Lairedion,miss anita,miss ati……..sorry for making you wait for so long. I agree with Lairedion….anyone who killied children and babies anywhere must be punished by death penalty. And for Anita,Ati…..if Indonesian moslem leaders had agreed with forbiding girls of not going to school, you wouldn’t have been permitted to study anything in school like you do now. This country has many muslim mass organization such as: Muhammadiyah,Nahdlatul Ulama, Persis etc. The two biggest are .uhammadiyah and NU.both of them let women study in school and pesantren. I don’t have similar opinion with anybody who forbide women of going to schools. I believe that there isn’t any muslim leader whose thought is like that. Forbiding women go to school againsts Indonesian law in UUD 1945. ” Every citizen has a right to have an education”. About the question asking will PKS make jakarta similar to aceh…I am not the one who have authority to answer. But I believe PKS is not as “rude” as you think guys.
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ross1948 08:50 on February 24, 2014 Permalink |
Pagi,Pak Andriono. Hujan lagi, terus saya masih di rumah.
Yes, Muslim girls go to school here – the question concerned the Taliban, who also base their war on women on their interpretation of shariah law.
But we are, I think, all waiting to hear your answer on the issue of ‘apostasy,’ the death penalty for those who convert out of Islam.
There seems to be an intellectual hang-up among some people.
I once had a good friendship with a Muslim lady who of course wanted me to convert to Islam. I declined this kind suggestion, but naturally discussed it with her and was surprised when she told me that if I did think seriously and converted, then thought some more and un-converted, that was ‘not allowed.’
Why does God give us brains if not to keep thinking?
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Wanti 13:11 on February 24, 2014 Permalink |
Andriono, you show you can be nice when you write about Sang Timur.
But there are many not nice, like FPI, same like FUI, GARIS. Gangsters, so you need using your strong words to them. They hurt your religion, not Ross who likes Indonesia so much.
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Andriono cinangka 20:57 on February 24, 2014 Permalink |
Good evening…..my purpose of writing in this blog is not to convert you all into Islam. I want to give confirmation of false understanding that you have in your mind. Muslim in Indonesia is different. Who fought Dutch,Japanesse colonial in struggling for Indonesia’s independence?most of them were moslem ! They sacrificed their lives to get Indonesian freedom. Which school fought Dutch, Japanesse and Communists?the answer is PESANTREN! Ross about your question about muslim who convert into another belief. It was true when caliph Abu Bakr declared war to those who changed their belief and admitted another fake prophets. Abu Bakr became the example until now.but in Indonesia, I saw many moslem convert to another belief and they are fine until now. No one kill them. Ahmad Mossadeq for example, he admitted of receiving “” wahyu” from Gabriel just like prophet Muhammad. After we brought it to the court,he was stated guilty. Indonesian moslem were still kind by reeducating Mossadeq,Indonesian muslims forgave him and NOT KILLED HIM. Don’t worry Ross….Indonesian Muslims are different.
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ross1948 01:05 on February 25, 2014 Permalink |
Thanks for the reassurance, Pak.
However, I don’t worry about Indonesian Muslims as such. It is the Islamist threat to freedom that’s the problem.
There is a difference, which I post on a lot, precisely because most of the people I mix with socially are Muslims, who are perfectly normal people who don’t deserve to get a bad reputation because of the thug groups.
Having said that, I’m not sure what you mean about Ahmad Mossadeq.
You say he was taken to court and ‘stated guilty’ because of some religious revelation he talked about receiving?
That is not freedom of religion.
Good he wasn’t killed, but he should never have been ‘bought to court.’ His religious beliefs, even if strange, are his own business, not the courts, surely.
I don’t know all the details of his case, so perhaps you could explain, if you like.
I c
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Andriono cinangka 21:41 on February 25, 2014 Permalink |
Good evening ross….let me explain. Indonesia only admits 5 religions. If someone has different with “the five”, he must choose one of them. In USA more than five religions because The US has more ethnic,tribes from around the world. Speaking about freedom of religion, this country protects only “the five”. The other will not be admitted and protected. About freedom of speech in Indonesia is guaranteed in UUD 1945. But remember,it doesn’t include the harrassment,mocking,insulting like the commenters of this blog or another muslim haters. When I decide to choose PKS but you don’t, its your freedom. But if you insult our prophet through cartoon,or insulting our religions, you trigger the moslems of being very angry and are not afraid to die.We love our prophet than ourselves.
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ross1948 00:19 on February 26, 2014 Permalink |
Hwllo again, Andriono.
I find your comment disappointing, not least that you advocate compulsion in religion. It is obviously nonsense to say that somebody MUST choose a state-approved religion. You cannot command people’s souls.
Was it not Gus Dur, whom you previously expressed a liking for, who actually changed the number of creeds recognised by the state. And recognition, in terms of subsidies and ceremonial state occasions, is not the same as allowing.
I am frequently horrified by things politicians and clerics (of all religions) say. But whilst I like to think I am young at heart, I am grown up. I do not rush out and get gangs of morons to go and kill the offending speakers.
The idea that ‘blasphemy’ or ‘apostasy’ are to be met with violence, heck, man, it’s primitive.
I’m sure you love your Prophet.
But Prophets, and God Almighty, however you define them, are surely more than capable of exacting punishment on those who offend them.
They do not require hoodlums to run amok and murder in their Names.
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Andriono cinangka 23:21 on February 26, 2014 Permalink |
Good evening Ross….all good moslems will be angry if you mock at,harrass prophet Muhammad and Islam. When someone mocks at your mother, will you stay calm? Prophet Muhammad is our leader. If your mother or sister is mocked/harrassed and you just sit and stay calm, I assume that you are moron. Indonesia only admits “the five” Ross. If you have another religion and you don’t seek followers and you do it for yourself, I don’t think there will be a problem. But when you fill any form in Indonesia you must fill one of the five. My friends said that this discussion is useless. But I have different opinion with him. I believe this discussion is useful.
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ross1948 07:15 on February 27, 2014 Permalink |
Pagi, Pak.
Musilms, Christians, Hindus, Protestants, Buddhists, the five ‘recognised’ creeds here, yes?
So what about the Confucians? Did President Gus Dur not add them to the list?
If so, then a genuinely tolerant government could add more? Or a very iniquitous government could subtract one or more? If a government in a foreign country banned your religion, would you sit back and say that’s okay, or would you think it unjust?
In Britain, where my ancestors came from, Protestants and Catholics used to burn each other – centuries ago. People there are more civilised now. Blasphemy laws have gone. The idea of attacking or killing somebody because he or she draws a cartoon is just laughable, except that it happens, and then it’s not a laughing matter.
Mob violence, that’s the sort of behaviour you should condemn, not the drawing of a cartoon, or the writing of a book like, for example, Salman Rushdie’s.
If somebody in a Western country threatens physical harm or death to another person because of their faith, they can be punished, but we tend to think that if God is angry, He will get us when we turn up at the gates of Heaven!
Yes, of course we get angry if somebody or something dear to us is abused or insulted. That’s my point – grown-ups do not translate anger into murderous violence.
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andriono cinangka 22:47 on March 7, 2014 Permalink |
good evening Ross….
sorry for being absent for a long time…I know that protestant and catholic used to be in war. When North ireland was occupied by your country, many British soldiers died in Northern Ireland. the book entitle “Death of a soldier” by Philip Prowse let me and my students know about the dispute. Iranian leader gave an order to punish Salman Rushdie because he insulted moslem and our prophet. as I said before, Prophet Muhammad is higher than our own parents and ourself. Prophet Muhammad is not a proper object of any funny cartoon picture. So it is not laughable. We never draw your prophet because we understand that you must be very angry. Moslem never draw any religion leader for mocking his followers in cartoon.
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ross1948 23:14 on March 7, 2014 Permalink |
Selamat malam, Pak.
In times past, there was religious violence in Britain, but Northern Ireland is not primarily a religious conflict. There are two distinct nations there, one of which, like Scotland, England and Wales, wishes to be part of the UK, so there was no ‘occupation.’ But you can find better reading on that than Prowse’s book.
Khomeini didn’t just say ‘Punish Salman Rushdie!’ He urged Muslims to MURDER the man. For a book?
I am not a very religious person, though I do find groteque insults to Christ offensive, such as that New York ‘art’ expo. <a href="http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/law-order/andres-serrano-piss-christ-triggers-religious-fury-and-court-battle-in-1990s-trials/story-fnat7dag-1226591823318
But I do not think the insulters should be murdered.
I also personally think burning Korans is stupid.But I wouldn’t burn the burners!
Speaking of Iran, what’s your position on their interpretation of shariah law as far as executing women (or men)for adultery?
I’m all for the death penalty, but for brutal killers and child-molesting rapists and for terrorists, like Imam Samoedra and his partners in crime.
NOT for people who cheat on their spouses, or change their religion ( ‘apostasy’ ) or criticise either your Prophet or Jesus or Buddha.
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andriono cinangka 21:26 on March 16, 2014 Permalink |
good evening Ross…..I read from the Republika that Denmark forbids halal food. They have right to do so if the government agree. The policy of forbiding halal food is a declaration of war against Islam. so many time this country mock and insult Islam.Moslem countries should ban all Danish products from entering their countries for a respond. By the way Ross, Have you watched “The Passion of Christ” directored by Mel Gibson ? after western people watched it, many anger adressed to Mel Gibson then. Why didn’t the western people think of freedom of expression? The answer is that if we talk, discuss and argue about religion, a good religious person will defend it or they will die for it. i don’t deny that there are many,thousand muslims who don’t pray five times a day, don’t fast in Ramadhan, and still do sinful activities such as committing adultery. i feel sorry for them. That’s why we should teach and reteach them. i still guess what religion you belong Ross or you don’t have any religion like Stalin? let me know. about my position on Khomeini decision? as A spiritual leader in Iran, he has a right to do so Ross. I respect his opinion. you have been living in jakarta for a long time Ross…..I believe that you read from the newspaper about adultery cases occurs everyday. it must be stopped. Islam considers adultery as a big sin.in your country, there is no punishment for those who commit adultery. in England, free sex is allowed.In Indonesia, it is forbidden.
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ross1948 21:41 on March 16, 2014 Permalink |
Malam, Pak!
If you read all my posts, you’ll see that I am a Protestant, but a somewhat lazy one.
Some of my ancestors were persecuted out of France centuries ago because they would not give up their religion. For that reason, and because it makes sense, I abhor any attempt by anyone to force his or her religion on other people.
I’ll get back to Denmark another day.
But as to adultery, it used to be a crime in Western countries, and it isn’t now. It tends to bring a lot of problems to those who commit it, without any government or police intervention. If you think it should be illegal, up to you. But killing those people is a step too far for me.
I think you are far too harsh. Some people think I am, and I only want to impose the death penalty for monstrous crimes, like murder and treason.
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